Religion in School

SenorMatt24 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-31-2006

I bring up this topic, not so much for a debate, but for some help. I'm in a dual-credit speech class and we have to have a debate. We were assigned teams and given a topic; Ours was religion in school. I was also assigned to the pro side. We figure that there obviously are more reasons to keep religion out, that to bring it in. However, I'd like to hear from some of you as to your thoughts about it so that I can see what I'll be looking forward too. Thanks guys..

T.O.F.N. · #2 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006

uhh, can't really help you out there... I believe religon should be in school only if it is even.

Chaos6 · #3 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006

Yeah, that would be tough for me. I'd have to tell the teach there is no way I could be on the "Pro" side on that debate and come up with good arguments.

I feel the only way Religion should be in school is individually by the students. In other words, if a student wishes to say a prayer before a Football game then everyone is allowed a moment of silence. That is silence, that means pray in your head not out loud.

Also I would be OK with elective classes that students could take about religion, but there would have to be a variety available, not just Christianity or Catholicism. The classes would not be classes of worship, they would be to learn the history of the religion and stuff like that.

Tigam · #4 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorMatt24

I bring up this topic, not so much for a debate, but for some help. I'm in a dual-credit speech class and we have to have a debate. We were assigned teams and given a topic; Ours was religion in school. I was also assigned to the pro side. We figure that there obviously are more reasons to keep religion out, that to bring it in. However, I'd like to hear from some of you as to your thoughts about it so that I can see what I'll be looking forward too. Thanks guys..

Not a problem... I'll throw some at you tonight.

Edit: What age group would I be dealing in? You're a senior right?

SenorMatt24 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006

No, I'm a junior... However, I'm the youngest one in the class. Most of the people are late teens-early 20's and it goes up from there to a guy who's 59.

ripperjd · #6 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006

To start, I think you need to define with certainty whether you are debating teaching religion or practicing religion in school. If it isn’t specifically determined, I would ask your teacher. If he/she leaves it up to you, I would defiantly work on the teaching of religion over the practice, as it is easier to convince someone to learn about others beliefs than to instill beliefs into someone. You might want to keep an argument in your pocket for the other though, as that is where your opposition will try and hurt you. I’d try and find ways to swing it towards the teaching, to keep it in a realm where you can take away the “liberal” factor.

There are certain morals that can be learned from all religions (don't lie, cheat, steal, kill), but if you are going to teach one, you should teach them all. Most religious texts have some great literary stories in them. I also know that much of the bible is filled with mathematical lessons, which could be helpful in that regard as well.

Teaching the history of religion can be very important, especially considering how religion has influenced the structure of society, government, and the intent of war. That would be the angle I would try to argue. The problem would come into how far you teach about religion before it becomes a sermon. I guess that is were diversity would come into play.

I’m no expert though, so I don't know if any of that helped. I’ll keep an eye on this one and contribute what I can!

Tigam · #7 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006

Ok... Wide variety... Must be some kind of school there.

Looks like you are going to have to go with the 'what society is' and the benefits there of. But I would first start off with how it's in every one's lives. The government in which we all support, even if we don't want it to, which and drives our fabric of life. It *is* the will of the people. Or is supposed to be, but that's another topic. For this one, it'll work just fine. Majority rules.

Examples:
The US Preamble... On the constitution, and what is learned ( when I was in school anyway ) the wording "one nation" was followed by "under god"

~Quick note, the Original, that is actually on the constitution does not have God mentioned. But it's a moot point to the point you want to make. Only that it's not diverse from society, and while the government *may have* taken steps, even it couldn't eliminate it's references.~

Take in any coin that you can read... And a Bill of your choosing... "In God we Trust"

The National Anthem... Lyrics include: God bless America.

You get the idea. Find references for how many religious people are in the US. Both Christian and otherwise.

Now... All of that won't do you a damn bit of good. But then, it wouldn't be my argument either. It's just the set up. And besides, might as well try to win some points with your teacher.

Most of the math that you learn in school, you'll never actually use in real life. No kidding.

Or that is... It isn't the actual equations that you will use. Math, much like this little exercise you are doing, isn't really being taught to you because you need to learn what 3.14 is. It's there to teach you *how* to think. Not to actually memorize it and forget it. Break it down in it's simplest form... Analyze it... And figure it out. It literally teaches you more how to learn, rather than what. It's gives you the building blocks for logical thought...

Now with that in mind... Wouldn't it be smart to know why the majority of people in the US, let alone the world, think the way that they do? Hell... The majority of US presidents has been "Christian" in nature. What better place than to learn them in school in a factual manner? Building blocks for the "why" and useful in knowing how the majority believes, and of course it's leaders because it believes that way and elects accordingly.

Man... I could go on for several pages... Not sure what the cap is on text, but really this isn't my assignment. That's the base of the arguement I'd make, hope you find it useful.

SlickRick1382 · #8 (**permalink**) 08-02-2006

Wish I could help you Matt but I only feel that it shoudl be allowed as an elective or in elementary-highschool of catholic schools (private schools).

Other than that I don't agree too much and believe it should be seperate.

cashpath · #9 (**permalink**) 08-02-2006

Sucks being assigned to the losing side of an arguement.. I guess you just have to pull as much BS out of your *** as you can and try not to laugh while doing it.

Chaos6 · #10 (**permalink**) 08-02-2006

Tigam, you just confused the hell out of me with your last post... What does religion in school have to do with Math? Matt, I hope you could follow that post better than I did.

Quote:

Most of the math that you learn in school, you'll never actually use in real life.

And I would choose to argue that is because most people are too stupid or too lazy to use it. I use math just about every day in my job, I use Trig to find out sides and angles of Triangles. I use algebra to develop SPC for measuring of parts and for development of new parts.

I use math in everyday life, to figure out if I can afford to buy groceries and how much I can actually spend on groceries.

People generally don't use math because they had that attitude that they don't need to know it and thus didn't retain it after they had it in school and now they can't do it.

Tigam · #11 (**permalink**) 08-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos6

Tigam, you just confused the hell out of me with your last post... What does religion in school have to do with Math? Matt, I hope you could follow that post better than I did.

It's building blocks for logic... Thus, referencing building blocks for faith if you will.

Quote:

And I would choose to argue that is because most people are too stupid or too lazy to use it. I use math just about every day in my job, I use Trig to find out sides and angles of Triangles. I use algebra to develop SPC for measuring of parts and for development of new parts.

Sooner or later you are going to figure out not everyone is you. Good luck with that.

Quote:

I use math in everyday life, to figure out if I can afford to buy groceries and how much I can actually spend on groceries.

So you think most people Trig to do that? Yeah...

Quote:

People generally don't use math because they had that attitude that they don't need to know it and thus didn't retain it after they had it in school and now they can't do it.

Most people don't use advanced math because it's not necessary. It should be, but it's not.

Edit: Before you decide to argue about this, go back to my first statement and realize that it's not worth the effort if you don't agree with that.
--------------- Madden 2007 Next Gen football ---------

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashpath

Sucks being assigned to the losing side of an arguement.. I guess you just have to pull as much BS out of your *** as you can and try not to laugh while doing it.

Agreed. It's going to take a damn good bull****ter, and hopefully a big group of followers to actually "Win" this debate.

cashpath · #12 (**permalink**) 08-02-2006

Quote:

Most of the math that you learn in school, you'll never actually use in real life. No kidding.

The keywords being MOST and YOU LEARN

The fact being that you start learning math when you start learning shapes (which some kids don't learn till they get to school). And most people actually Learn the math that they will use and fail to Learn the other math..

Math:
Identifying shapes (square , circle, triangle)
Counting
Identifying Quantities
Time
Patterns
Sorting
Addition
Subtraction
Inverse Relationships
Value (including learning money values)
Data manipulations (gathering, storing, etc)
Multiplication
Prime numbers
Identifying advanced shapes (polygons, octogons)
Functional relationships
Fractions
Expressions
Equations
Equalities
Order of operations (Multiply first etc..)
Division
Graphing
Negative numbers
Proportions
Percentages
Rates

Now thats the gist of things you learn in 9 years of schooling plus what your parents might teach you before schooling (like shapes) BEFORE high school.

Once people get to high school they might learn algebra and Geometry... They might even do some advanced classes, but most wont.. and most wont LEARN algebra or Geometry either... Not like they LEARNED the stuff they were taught in the 9-14 previous years.. You learned what a sqaure is you KNOW it.. never will forget it, you know how to count, you know the values of numbers, you know how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, sort, compare, etc etc....

And most people use that stuff they were taught on a daily basis...<