Well... Not going to give into terrorists... So... What do you say the "rest of the world?"
Going to sit back and talk, or do something?
Quote:
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Hizbollah, which claims links to the Lebanese group of the same name, said on Tuesday it stood ready to attack Israeli and U.S. interests worldwide.
"We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.
"They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.
Iranian religious organisations have made great public show of recruiting volunteers for "martyrdom-seeking operations" in recent years, usually threatening U.S. interests in case of any attack against the Islamic Republic's nuclear programme.
But there is no record of an Iranian volunteer from these recruitment campaigns taking part in an attack.
Iran's Hizbollah (Party of God) says it is spiritually bound to Shi'ite Muslim guerrillas in Lebanon but its command structure and funding are unclear.
Despite Iranian Hizbollah's insistence that it takes orders from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, government ministries say Hizbollah does not implement official policy. Iran's government has said it hopes for a diplomatic solution to the Israeli offensive in Lebanon.
While Iran did fund and support Lebanese Hizbollah during the 1980s, Tehran says it has not contributed troops or weapons in the latest violence. Israel says Iranian armaments have been fired against it.
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Yeah, not giving in terrorists is good. I agree totaly. And these guys look like terrorists. So, fight them if you want.
But dont forget that not every muslim of this 1.7 billion humans group is a terrorist. Not even 1% of them.
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
Yeah, not giving in terrorists is good. I agree totaly. And these guys look like terrorists. So, fight them if you want.
Remember that thread where I said that you, meaning the rest of the world, would have to join in against terrorism or it wouldn't go away... Did you agree with that? Because I was hoping *we* would fight them.
Perhaps you don't have to do it through war, hell sit back and relax if it's not something your country feels it should do... How about helping changing the economic structure that creates that environment? You do believe that it is mostly environment that creates terrorists don't you?
Quote:
But dont forget that not every muslim of this 1.7 billion humans group is a terrorist. Not even 1% of them.
I don't recall ever saying any Muslim was, let alone all of them.
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Was any of this really a suprise ... I mean did anyone except something else from them?
Hizbollah? No... Not really. Nor the US's, Israel's or European's.
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Remember that thread where I said that you, meaning the rest of the world, would have to join in against terrorism or it wouldn't go away... Did you agree with that? Because I was hoping *we* would fight them.
I think the nations of the world are seeing terrorism as a problem, but they have different opinions of how to solve it. Your president said something great to the media very early after 11th September, maybe mid October 2001 or so. I have tried to quote it in my own 'better world' thread, and what he said was something like this:
"If we want to have a safer world, we need to get a better world".
That speech to the media and world really impressed me.
But now, almost 5 year later, iam a little bit dissapointed and disillusioned.
Did he really backup up his visions for a better world in the past 5 years by his activities?
Maybe partly, but i expected more. Especially more dialog and converation between the different cultures of the world. I thought the UN and the US will try to close the gap between the rich and the poor of the world a little bit, but i dont see big efforts in this area. This blame goes to the UN as well.
But Bush sounded like a man with great visions in 2001 and now i dont see much of improvement, no dialog started from the US to come closer to the arabic world or the poor countries of the world. Bush made wars, some say even nesseccary wars, but a lot of persons in Europe and all over the world simply expected more. I feel like it was a wasted opportunity for a new start of dialog and understanding for each other.
The world is not safer now, it could have been safer if the US had tried to gain more friends, but instead of that even old friends like France, Turkey, Germany and many others are questioning the intention of the US.
Millions of people in this countries ask themselves if the US really wants to 'free the people' of poor nations and establish new and better system there and give them a future or are they just trying to eliminate one self-chosen enemy after the other?
If this campain against terror is combined with a try of more dialog and understanding for each other Europe (and me) will help the US in every way we can. But as long as we see and feel that the US is too much reliying on their military and not seems to be very interested for the dialog with the non-US world, we wont be big supporters of the US strategy of fighting terror.
Quote:
Perhaps you don't have to do it through war, hell sit back and relax if it's not something your country feels it should do... How about helping changing the economic structure that creates that environment? You do believe that it is mostly environment that creates terrorists don't you?
Exaxtly. Yeah i beleive in that.
The best way of fighting terror is not fighting them with weapons. Terror and Terrorists has no home, no land. We all agree that fighting one nation is only getting the result of an growing terrorist army cause even the average guy in the attacked country starts to see the US as an enemy.
The best, but longest, way of fighting terror is to make the environment better for the poeple in the poor countries of the world. If the western world is able to help the 'poor world' by and reducing the suffering, poverty and give them hope for a better life, then terror wil automatically lose its supporters. I have absolutely no doubt sbout that. One reason humans kill is cause they are not happy with their lifes. Humans who are happy with their lifes have one reason less to fight. One BIG reason.
This way of ending terror will need time, patience, tons of money, dialog, helping and understanding each other, but iam sure, it will work. Then the world will be safer. And the Terrorists wont tear apart the world till all this is achieved, so there is still time, but it has to start now.
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
Personally speaking Billster, I cant begin to fathom what your logic is in criticising the US's approach to terrosim.
You say you are disappointed with their approach.
What is Germany's approach?
I dont think the approach has been flawless, but I would take that approach over doing sweet **** all any day...
What I really wonder is, where would we be, in this war against terror, if the US and to some extent, the UK, didnt exist?
You criticis America for being the "World Police". By the sounds of it, they friggin well need to be. Someone needs to kick the developed world up the *** and say "We need to get something done."
Make more friends? France? Im I missing something as to why they make a difference to anything? Why ally with those who wont do something? What do you suggest, brown nose and sit around a table saying, "This terror thing is a pain, lets talk some more about it."
I just dont like the way you have criticised the only people doing that. Fair play if Germany were doing something too. But I havent seen it. And until then, personally I think you need to get down off your high horse and congratulate the US for doing SOMETHING, even if its not the perfect solution, its better than NOTHING.
By the time the Germans and French and co have thought of a solution, there will have been many many more attacks, killing more of the people of the developed world.
But what do I know..right?
--------------- Madden 2007 Next Gen football ---------
When I say doing that, I mean doing something..not nothing.
__________________
David "The Hayemaker" Haye:21-1, 20 KOs
Undisputed World Cruiserweight Champion (WBA, WBC, WBO, The Ring Magazine Champion) World Heavyweight Title Fight: November 7
The Hitman is done...
Last edited by titansrule; 07-19-2006 at 12:12 PM..
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
"We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.
"They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.
I'm really struggling with this. Am I supposed to be scared of 2000 incompetent Hizbollah troops? 2000 Troops are going to be WWIII? WTF. We could handle those 2000 troops with 20 US Marines.
Fly a jet over them, drop a couple bombs and move on to bigger things.
__________________
"Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it." - Niels Bohr
"many-worlds interpretation" (MWI) which postulates that at the quantum level, everything that can happen does happen, and that each possible outcome branches the universe into another
Its not Billsters fault though.... the media all over Europe is very Anti-American and easily create a resentment for our nation.
I know this because I'm Portuguese and I see the news coverage they get when I go on vacation not to mention the jealousy and hatred I get viewed with by certain people (ignorant people in my opinon) not because I'm American, since I'm not, but because I live there.
Its really absurd though because alot of it is attributed to jealousy and envy more than anything else. They try to say we as a nation are arrogant, etc, but in actuality they are jealous of the lifestyle we lead.
__________________
Quote:
Males shouldn't be jealous that's a female trait -- Jay Z
Personally speaking Billster, I cant begin to fathom what your logic is in criticising the US's approach to terrosim.
You say you are disappointed with their approach.
What is Germany's approach?
I dont think the approach has been flawless, but I would take that approach over doing sweet **** all any day...
What I really wonder is, where would we be, in this war against terror, if the US and to some extent, the UK, didnt exist?
You criticis America for being the "World Police". By the sounds of it, they friggin well need to be. Someone needs to kick the developed world up the *** and say "We need to get something done."
Make more friends? France? Im I missing something as to why they make a difference to anything? Why ally with those who wont do something? What do you suggest, brown nose and sit around a table saying, "This terror thing is a pain, lets talk some more about it."
I just dont like the way you have criticised the only people doing that. Fair play if Germany were doing something too. But I havent seen it. And until then, personally I think you need to get down off your high horse and congratulate the US for doing SOMETHING, even if its not the perfect solution, its better than NOTHING.
By the time the Germans and French and co have thought of a solution, there will have been many many more attacks, killing more of the people of the developed world.
But what do I know..right?
--------------- Madden 2007 Next Gen football ---------
When I say doing that, I mean doing something..not nothing.
I could respond... But that pretty much sums up my stand on it. Not how I would have said some of it... But hey...
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Its not Billsters fault though.... the media all over Europe is very Anti-American and easily create a resentment for our nation.
Its really absurd though because alot of it is attributed to jealousy and envy more than anything else. They try to say we as a nation are arrogant, etc, but in actuality they are jealous of the lifestyle we lead.
Yeah, the european media is extremely ANTI-US since the Iraq war. But thats not because of them beeing jealous. I think we simply hate war, and we see no sense in responding ONLY with terror against terror. You also need to to all the stuff I wrote above NEXT to fight them.
And Titansrule,
you can see that iam unable to understand the UN and its inactivity in matters of cultural dialog worldwide, and Germany is in the UN. The UN and its leading members want more dialog but they are clearly lacking the efforts for it, but the US is lacking the dialog completely.
You simply cant find a peace with the Arabs or whomever when the only language you speak is the language of violence and war.
And yeah, Germany is lacking activity in the entire conflict too. Europe isnt perfect, but neither is the US.
I personally think the mix of dialog and usage of military can help but not only military.
Only invading countries and killing the terrorists is not enough. What happens after that? If thing turn to the bad like in Iraq after the war you will have again a new and even more fanatic group hating you. And so on, and so on. Always the same conflict from the start. Like a Deja Vu....
--------------- Madden 2007 Next Gen football ---------
Well, to make it short: If war is the ONLY solution of the US, they will lose the battle against terror. And the UN has to be more active in matters converation between cultures, in some cases even has to support war. IN SOME CASES. Simple like that.
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
Last edited by TheBillster; 07-19-2006 at 01:54 PM..
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
That's the main problem there Billster... You know what you don't like and what not. But you have no solutions. Come up with a better way, otherwise it's all coming across as pointing fingers and whining.
I hear you saying this "better way" ... But if it is... Why in the world has it not been done yet? Who's permission do you need exactly?
Point those fingers man... It's the US's fault mainly... I get it. But you're wrong.
Refusing to accept personal responsibility for your own actions isn't going to get anything done. I mean that generally. Most of the UN is treating these terrorists like they are children who are being naughty. Not the US. They are men that know what they do. If you so choose to, justifiably I'll grant you, to have the US take responsibility for it's actions... So you must for others. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. There is just no way around that.
If it makes you feel better at night thinking the US is mainly to blame, feel free... But you aren't doing yourself any justice. Just as the UN isn't by making a decision about a piece of land, and then not promoting that the land given belongs to those that it gave it to.
Quote:
Well, to make it short: If war is the ONLY solution of the US, they will lose the battle against terror. And the UN has to be more active in matters converation between cultures, in some cases even has to support war. IN SOME CASES. Simple like that.
If that was the case we'd already have half of them dead Billster. It's a illogical argument that has no bases. No point in even saying it.
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
I never said the US is bad or should be blamed for doing something extremely bad, why should I? I only said maybe more diplomacy next or instead of war could help too...
I think you all know me good enough for over 2 years now to know that all i want in this debates is more room for peace.
If iam boiling too much blood iam sorry. I thought this is a place where everything can be said, iam sure it can be, but i forgot it is an american site. My very european point of view causes much more problems than i thought and wanted.
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
You CAN say whatever you want here.. but YES you should have suspected that considering most of us ARE American.. you would be getting some American Viewpoints..
__________________
Book of Cash Chapter 2: Verse 11- Do not PM or IM me until you have exhausted every other way.
First off, an opinion cannot be wrong....its an OPINION
Ok, good. In my opinion, you're an idiot. Good thing I can't be wrong!
Timothy 2:12
You CAN say whatever you want here.. but YES you should have suspected that considering most of us ARE American.. you would be getting some American Viewpoints..
Nobody is perfect....
But it was really interesting to see how US citizens feel about the entire situation.
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
Just as it was interesting to see the view that is holding Europe back from doing anything.
Last time I checked, terrorists werent people you could reason with...People that are willing to kill themselves in the name of a higher power, that cannot be disproven, usually arent..
__________________
David "The Hayemaker" Haye:21-1, 20 KOs
Undisputed World Cruiserweight Champion (WBA, WBC, WBO, The Ring Magazine Champion) World Heavyweight Title Fight: November 7
I never said the US is bad or should be blamed for doing something extremely bad, why should I? I only said maybe more diplomacy next or instead of war could help too...
Well, to make it short: If war is the ONLY solution of the US, they will lose the battle against terror. And the UN has to be more active in matters converation between cultures, in some cases even has to support war. IN SOME CASES. Simple like that.
You sure make it sound like that. Try a less *accusing* way of going about things, and I think you'll catch less flaq.
Quote:
I think you all know me good enough for over 2 years now to know that all i want in this debates is more room for peace.
If iam boiling too much blood iam sorry. I thought this is a place where everything can be said, iam sure it can be, but i forgot it is an american site. My very european point of view causes much more problems than i thought and wanted.
Takes a lot more than that to get me going guy. It's not your viewpoint that is the problem. It's the style that it comes across. Reread what I quoted in gray to you with a open mind. Pretend you are a American and you just said that to them. Understand that you just made the insinuation that it's the only thing that the US does to solve problems.
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
I'm really struggling with this. Am I supposed to be scared of 2000 incompetent Hizbollah troops? 2000 Troops are going to be WWIII? WTF. We could handle those 2000 troops with 20 US Marines.
Fly a jet over them, drop a couple bombs and move on to bigger things.
Well, I'm not terribly scared of the 2000 troops as a group, but it's thier definition of war that is the problem. I don't think they are talking about 2000 troops with guns... rather 2000 troops set to carry out terrorist missions. Mix that with Iran and N. Korea working together on missiles, and they could reach many different parts of the world.
Again... why I keep saying that we are looking at this war the wrong way.
--------------- Madden 2007 Next Gen football ---------
You all know how I love to post articles, but this is an interesting point of view of what is happening right now...
Quote:
Watching American TV in Beirut
By Habib Battah
War in Lebanon has once again become breaking news on television screens across the world, but a growing body of distorted reporting is being disseminated just as rapidly as the country is being destroyed.
In recent days, many American news programmes have demonstrated an exceptionally weak knowledge of Lebanese politics, skewed further by a lack of access to areas that have been attacked in the country and their victims.
Take Monday's coverage of the conflict on NBC's popular Today Show with anchorwoman Nathalie Morales, who in introducing a report on Hezbollah, rhetorically asks: "So just who is Israel at war with in this latest chapter of an ancient conflict?"
Not only does the reporter assume that Israel's war targets only Hezbollah (and not the Lebanese civilians, government, private businesses and the military, which have all been attacked) but even contradicts earlier reports on her own network indicating Hezbollah's founding to be in the early 1980s; hardly considered "ancient" times.
Equally misleading were reports on the Today Show defining Hezbollah solely as the mastermind of the 1982 attacks on US marines and possessor of long-range missiles.
Absent in the reporting was any reference to Hezbollah's role in defeating the 22-year Israeli occupation of the country and its support among up to a million Lebanese, with many benefiting from an intricate network of social services and political representation.
Of course, failing to report such details contributes to the view that Hezbollah acts as merely a renegade organisation rather than a movement that encompasses roughly a quarter of the country's population.
On the other hand, when it comes to reporting the situation in Israel, anchors on sister network MSNBC seem to boast an intimate knowledge of the population, even a bit of psychoanalytical skill.
During his show Hardball with Chris Mathews, the host describes the Israeli town of Haifa as being similar to a city in California, "very modern, very debonair".
Anchorwoman Rita Cosby, who freely dubs Hezbollah as "rag-tag" terrorists, would later describe an attack on "Holy Nazareth" as an assault on "the home town of Jesus", and erroneously as his birthplace - of course no reference to the multitude of biblical cities in Lebanon.
Many pundits are blatantly supportive of Israel's fight against "terror acts"
On Hardball, Mathews asks a reporter on the scene how Israelis are coping with "vacation plans" considering the war situation. Mathews concludes that a resilient character among the Israeli people, will "keep that country around for a very long time".
Later in the show there is analysis with field reporters and political pundits, many blatantly supportive of Israel's fight against "terror acts" and the "worldwide Islamic threat" - still no mention of the widespread devastation and human loss in Lebanon.
Mathew’s questions include: "How do you get Hezbollah to stop? Will Israel get the job done? How broad a goal is Israel setting?" And finally: "What’s a bigger threat to the United States? Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah?"
Mathews makes reference to the plight of the Lebanese only once during his show, when a reporter raises the possibility of a "bloody mess" for Israel.
Hours later, early on Tuesday, the casualty count in Lebanon stands at around 200 as cities and towns across the country are systematically pulverised, leaving hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians trapped and unable to escape the fighting.
A massive refugee crisis looms large while the country lies in complete disarray with its arterial roadways and bridges completely destroyed. Meanwhile, around a dozen are dead in Israel, with the last large attack occurring at a train depot on Sunday.
On Tuesday, 11 Lebanese soldiers are killed and a handful of rockets are launched at northern Israel with no casualties reported.
There is no indication of which side is doing the lion's share of the killing, perpetuating a false sense of balance on the battlefield
MSNBC decides to begin its newscast from Israel with a graphic that reads "breaking news: more than 250 killed in 7 days of fighting in Israel and Lebanon". There is no indication of which side is doing the lion's share of the killing, perpetuating a false sense of balance on the battlefield.
Over a live video feed, MSNBC anchorwoman Chris Jansen asks a reporter in North Israel about how average citizens there are coping with the short time lag between rocket attacks and air-raid sirens. The reporter describes a "quite frightening" situation for locals.
Jansen then speaks to a reporter in Lebanon over the phone, with a focus on the latest developments in the evacuation of foreign nationals. We are never told that average Lebanese citizens across the border have absolutely no warning of attacks and little access to well-fortified bomb shelters.
Before a commercial break there is footage of destruction across Lebanon, with swaths of the capital reduced to rubble. However, the graphics indicate that these are images of "Mideast Crisis" and not the result of round-the-clock Israeli air strikes.
Unlike the static clip of masked gunmen stomping on Israeli flags - images repeatedly attributed to Hezbollah and the Lebanese side - we see no equivalent attribution of burning cities and residences to Israel and its people.
The media myths continue unabated on Wednesday when an NBC reporter stationed on Cyprus tells a studio anchor that the American evacuation from Beirut will begin shortly and that the US embassy is providing a "safe haven" or "bomb shelters" for the thousands of US citizens as they wait.
But in truth, hundreds of Americans amass on an open-air seafront promenade near the embassy compound, where hundreds more crowd the streets and parking areas.
One US citizen, who gave her name only as Liliane, decided to return to her apartment after waiting out in the heat for several hours, disgusted she said by the disorganisation and curt attitude of US military personnel.
She described the plight of a woman with a newborn child sitting on the pavement with other children, pleading for help.
"They just didn't care," she said, drawing a contrast with television pictures of a smiling US ambassador escorting evacuees on to helicopters and while others were ferried away on chartered ships.
"They didn’t show what was happening outside the boats. On TV it looks like the situation is under control."
__________________
Last edited by ripperjd; 07-20-2006 at 03:07 PM..
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Just as it was interesting to see the view that is holding Europe back from doing anything.
Last time I checked, terrorists werent people you could reason with...People that are willing to kill themselves in the name of a higher power, that cannot be disproven, usually arent..
Who said you should talking to the terrorists? Talking to and with the 1.7 billion muslims over thew world should be enough to stop them supporting the terrorists. Some of the muslim folks should really be guys you could reason with...
Someone has to do it. The UN, the US, Europe. That is the point i dont get. Why isnt someone of the worlds leading nations trying to entet dialogs with the average and moderate groups of the big muslim community all over thew world?
Or the "fair price" idea. Speaking of that the foodstuff most poor nations are exporting are getting cheaper and cheaper during the last decades and as a result of it the poor countries get lesser revenues of their export articels, which are mostly foodstuff.
For example in Germany 2 pounds coffee out if Africa or South America costed 10 dollars or even more, but nowadays it is available for under 6 dollars. Almost every nature product Germany imports had the same drops in price. For the Germans it is nice, but for the exporting countries!!
Maybe worldwide cultivation restrictions could help. The poorest countries could get allowed to cultivate certain foodstuff only, so that the revenue of their exports would be really high compared to former periods.
What do you think?
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
Hey Rip.. Are you an American or do you just live in our country?
What whoa wait the Media is biased and misinformed?? NO WAY.. and I'm Sure the American Media is the only media that is that way right? No... actually the American Media actually gets people in to argue both sides.. you see it on TV every day.. they get the opposing viewpoints and broadcast the debate for everyone to see and hear both sides..
As opposed to most foreign Media where it is compeltely one sided and 99% of it is made up anti-US propoganda...
__________________
Book of Cash Chapter 2: Verse 11- Do not PM or IM me until you have exhausted every other way.
First off, an opinion cannot be wrong....its an OPINION
Ok, good. In my opinion, you're an idiot. Good thing I can't be wrong!
Timothy 2:12
Hey Rip.. Are you an American or do you just live in our country?
What whoa wait the Media is biased and misinformed?? NO WAY.. and I'm Sure the American Media is the only media that is that way right? No... actually the American Media actually gets people in to argue both sides.. you see it on TV every day.. they get the opposing viewpoints and broadcast the debate for everyone to see and hear both sides..
As opposed to most foreign Media where it is compeltely one sided and 99% of it is made up anti-US propoganda...
I don't think it's like that Cash... He's just right brain dominated is all.
<shrugs> I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
And that's *NOT* a bad thing or any type of put down.
__________________
I am a Moderator
Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Who said you should talking to the terrorists? Talking to and with the 1.7 billion muslims over thew world should be enough to stop them supporting the terrorists. Some of the muslim folks should really be guys you could reason with...
Someone has to do it. The UN, the US, Europe. That is the point i dont get. Why isnt someone of the worlds leading nations trying to entet dialogs with the average and moderate groups of the big muslim community all over thew world?
Firstly, I dont really think the support of average joe muslims is the point...In fact, many dont agree, and dont like this portrayal of muslims and "martyrs." They took a poll recently in Britain (obviously, these are British muslims then) that over 90% were Anti all the terrorist activities (in this case 07/07). One or two percent were the group in support.
Now views may well be different in different muslim countries, but if that reflects anything, its that it is a very small minority who even are in support. Not 1.7 Bn as you are so keen to point out.
Talking should be enough?? These guys are basing it on their religious texts, you are going to talk them into that being wrong? Those in support are extremists, and extremists cant just be dealt with by speaking. It feels to me like you over simplify a lot of things. We dont live in a world where you just talk to an extremist and they change their viewpoint.
Do you remember that woman that someone brought up, may have been Rams Fan...Who made the protest outside of the funeral of dead soldiers I think it was...No amount of talking is gonna cure someone like that. She was an extremist, the terrorists are extremists.
Those you say you could reason with DO NOT make up the extremists groups, nor support them.
Terrorists are twisted individuals, who have had their mind polluted by interpretations of sacred texts...But once it gets to a point where they are willing to die for that, and think they will be rewarded for doing so...Do you honestly believe they are people you can reason with? Do you honestly believe those in support of such abominable acts are reasonable people? They arent. I think you need to wake up and acknowledge that fact.
__________________
David "The Hayemaker" Haye:21-1, 20 KOs
Undisputed World Cruiserweight Champion (WBA, WBC, WBO, The Ring Magazine Champion) World Heavyweight Title Fight: November 7
Firstly, I dont really think the support of average joe muslims is the point...In fact, many dont agree, and dont like this portrayal of muslims and "martyrs." They took a poll recently in Britain (obviously, these are British muslims then) that over 90% were Anti all the terrorist activities (in this case 07/07). One or two percent were the group in support.
Now views may well be different in different muslim countries, but if that reflects anything, its that it is a very small minority who even are in support. Not 1.7 Bn as you are so keen to point out.
Talking should be enough?? These guys are basing it on their religious texts, you are going to talk them into that being wrong? Those in support are extremists, and extremists cant just be dealt with by speaking. It feels to me like you over simplify a lot of things. We dont live in a world where you just talk to an extremist and they change their viewpoint.
Do you remember that woman that someone brought up, may have been Rams Fan...Who made the protest outside of the funeral of dead soldiers I think it was...No amount of talking is gonna cure someone like that. She was an extremist, the terrorists are extremists.
Those you say you could reason with DO NOT make up the extremists groups, nor support them.
Terrorists are twisted individuals, who have had their mind polluted by interpretations of sacred texts...But once it gets to a point where they are willing to die for that, and think they will be rewarded for doing so...Do you honestly believe they are people you can reason with? Do you honestly believe those in support of such abominable acts are reasonable people? They arent. I think you need to wake up and acknowledge that fact.
To make it short, i said talk to majority of the muslims, who are moderate and NOT to ther terrorists. If you enter a dialog with them and can make them understand that the minority if hardcore islamistic moslems is not only a problem of the western world, it is also their problem, than they might help you and the terrorists will lose slowly their support. In every muslim state around the world (except Iran) the majority of muslims sees the terrorists as a serious problem.
You seem to have not gotten the point completely iam speaking of. There is a huge difference between 'talking to the terrorists' and 'talking to the 1.6 billion moderate muslims'.
You remember the scenerio with the nations A, B and C?
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
To make it short, i said talk to majority of the muslims, who are moderate and NOT to ther terrorists. If you enter a dialog with them and can make them understand that the minority if hardcore islamistic moslems is not only a problem of the western world, it is also their problem, than they might help you and the terrorists will lose slowly their support. In every muslim state around the world (except Iran) the majority of muslims sees the terrorists as a serious problem.
You seem to have not gotten the point completely iam speaking of. There is a huge difference between 'talking to the terrorists' and 'talking to the 1.6 billion moderate muslims'.
You remember the scenerio with the nations A, B and C?
OK so now I am confused... We don't attack the Terrorist, we don't even try to talk to them, instead we talk to people that have nothing to do with them? And then the "Passive Muslims" do what exactly to the Terrorists? Do they then begin to stealthily eliminate the Terrorists? Do they call a "Holy Meeting Of All Muslims" and preach to the Terrorists about how what they are doing is wrong?
Tell me what exactly talking to the "Passive Muslims" would accomplish!
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"Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it." - Niels Bohr
"many-worlds interpretation" (MWI) which postulates that at the quantum level, everything that can happen does happen, and that each possible outcome branches the universe into another
OK so now I am confused... We don't attack the Terrorist, we don't even try to talk to them, instead we talk to people that have nothing to do with them? And then the "Passive Muslims" do what exactly to the Terrorists? Do they then begin to stealthily eliminate the Terrorists? Do they call a "Holy Meeting Of All Muslims" and preach to the Terrorists about how what they are doing is wrong?
Tell me what exactly talking to the "Passive Muslims" would accomplish!
You gave the answer partly yourself. The dialog with the moderate muslims has to get stronger. Right now the muslim world community is unsure what to think about the US and are very overcautious. They cant clearly see if the US is really only in war with the terrorists or even with them. They should be involved more in a friendly way by converation and dialog to find solutions against terrorists. If they see the US or the western world are not seeing the average muslim as an enemy, they will start to get more active in making the life for extremists harder.
Beleive me, even in the muslim nation Turkey, a country in the Nato and a reliable ally for over 50 years now the people are generally thinking that the US is not really interested to gain friends inside the moderate arabic groups.
If they could get a dialog started with the moderate muslims these countries would slowly try to make their people understand that the terrorists are a problem for their own countries too. But unfortunately they see the US as the bigger danger for themselves at the moment. That has to change.
If that is changed the moderate muslim nations will have a much bigger interest in getting rid of the extremistic terrorists, simply cause they know that they are dangerous for them too and very mostly dont accept the way the terrorists are slating their holy religion Islam to their favor.
The moderate islamic world could really wipe out the terrorists, but it needs a dialog to make them understand that the US is not their enemy. It is only the enemy of the terrorists.
How long do you think the terrorists can exist when some of the islamic nations are preeching LOUD and CLEAR that the terrorists arent the good muslims they are pretending to be. The moderate muslims can make the recruitment of new guys for the terrorists really hard if they want. The world has to find ways to isolate the terrorists. And the best way of isolating them is to show the muslims that the US or the western world is no enemy of them.
How long can the terrorists exist when they are isolated even in the islamic world. When countries refuse to harbour them they are done.
Only big problem will be the Iran. And a war against them would have catastrophic effects for the world.
They are really a tough group, the world should try to find ways to make them understand that they cant support terror. I hope no war is necessary.
__________________ What it means to be a Bill...said by Fred Smerlas...
I have nothing but good memories of playing for the Bills. It's something I cherish. When I was playing for the Pats, I'd wear a Bills T-shirt under my uniform. Someone came up to me one day and said, 'Fred, no matter what you wear on the outside, you,ll always be a Buffalo Bill on the inside.'
What kind of solutions could we come up with by talking to the Muslim people?
Billster wasn't it you that said that not all Muslims are terrorists and that we are sterotyping, etc? What would talking to them do... We'd be talking to those that although they may have anit-American views that they aren't the terrorists nor are the going to stop them for us.
Even if they took our side it's not like terrorists work out in the open all day. I'm sure if the nation changed its views and tried its hardest to deter terrorism all that would happen is that they would become even more discreet. It's not like their going to get stopped from accomplishing their mission. Which is simply to do anything to harm the United States and the people of this country.
Even if we have this so called "dialog" it doesn't change the fact that they are anti-american and have all grown up that way. Why... mostly because of Anti-American media... so talking to the masses won't do anything with their government and media is feeding this bull**** and making them anti-american.
Not to mention appealing to this generation would be useless. These people are so anti-american that you can't change their minds. Their all adults and wont' change their opinion of us because we have "dialogue" with them.
**** we have dialogue with you everyday and your still anti-american in some of your views. I believe its practically impossible to change their views.
Its like coming to talk to me to get me to stop hating somethinf. Well since I hate it so much I'm not even listening to what your saying and could care less what your tell me. I'm a grown as man and I'm not about to change my position especially when the thing I dislike is asking me to like them. I would laugh and walk away.
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Man... I just want to know who the hell is stereo typing all Muslims in here.
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Extremists are like slinkys... Ultimately useless in the grand scheme of things... But still brings a smile to the face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Talking to those Muslims who are not actively involved or supporting the terrorist groups will achieve NOTHING. THEY ARE NOT INVOLVED..NOR DO THEY SUPPORT THE TERRORISTS.
You have said yourself they arent involved...You dont seem to understand that talking to them achieves nothing.
Whats the point in further deterring people who already do not support the actions of terrorists? They are going to peer pressure the terrorists into stopping? Wake up and smell the cheese Billster. Thats not how it works. These men die for what they believe in. They are not going to be deterred by passive muslims (in terms of terrorism) saying "You know what, this is wrong."
But maybe in your world they would?
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David "The Hayemaker" Haye:21-1, 20 KOs
Undisputed World Cruiserweight Champion (WBA, WBC, WBO, The Ring Magazine Champion) World Heavyweight Title Fight: November 7
If they see the US or the western world are not seeing the average muslim as an enemy, they will start to get more active in making the life for extremists harder..
They need to become more active in fighting Terrorism if they want the US to see them as an ally against Terror.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBillster
If they could get a dialog started with the moderate muslims these countries would slowly try to make their people understand that the terrorists are a problem for their own countries too. But unfortunately they see the US as the bigger danger for themselves at the moment.
They should see the US as a danger to themselves if they are not active in the war against terror.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBillster
the moderate muslim nations will have a much bigger interest in getting rid of the extremistic terrorists, simply cause they know that they are dangerous for them too.
They are dangerous for them too...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBillster
When countries refuse to harbour them they are done.
Exactly the point Billster. And those countries that are not actively attempting to "Cleanse" the Terrorist Organizations from their nation will have it done for them. So if they don't want the US War Machine in their country then they need to be more pro-active in the War Against Terror
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBillster
Only big problem will be the Iran. And a war against them would have catastrophic effects for the world.
They are really a tough group, the world should try to find ways to make them understand that they cant support terror. I hope no war is necessary.
How would a War against Iran have Catastrophic effects? The first time we went to war with Iraq, they were the 3rd largest Army in the world, and we handled them fairly easily.
What people seem to have problems realizing, is just how effective the US has become at War Fighting. Everyone is crying about the "Death Toll". But look at History, there are really no more US soldiers dieing in combat then would be dieing in auto accidents or training accidents if they were back home. And there are no more "Innocent Civilians" dieing then would be dieing under the rule of Saddam, starving or being tortured, etc.
If fact I did some research about a year ago when I was having a similar argument on another board that showed it was actually SAFER for US soldiers to be overseas in combat than back home. The death rate for US military personnel is higher due to Training accidents, Automobile accidents and other things that happen when they are back home than by the enemy.
__________________
"Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it." - Niels Bohr
"many-worlds interpretation" (MWI) which postulates that at the quantum level, everything that can happen does happen, and that each possible outcome branches the universe into another
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